Trauma Informed Creative Writing Circles with Galia Shilo Sum

00:00:02: Julia Davis: Today. This is Julia, and I'm speaking to Galia Shiloh Soum, who has been running creative writing circles for a long time, and I'd love to ask you, Gallia, 1st of all, welcome to the podcast Galia.

00:00:16: Galia Shilo Sum: Thank you for having me.

00:00:18: Julia Davis: I'd love to start by finding out how you came to be holding space for people who want to scratch their creative writing. Itch.

00:00:29: Galia Shilo Sum: Right. So, like many good things, it happened a little bit by chance, quite a few years ago, when I was volunteering at the shelter for women who were sexually harassed by mostly family members, sadly, and this was a place where they would come in the afternoon

00:00:53: Galia Shilo Sum: and just have a feeling of a home, and we volunteers used to come once a week and just spend the afternoon with them, and have

00:01:04: Galia Shilo Sum: conversations and cook dinner together, and it was really lovely. And then one day, one of the social workers that worked there, she had an idea that she said, you know, you're spending this, you know, spending quality time with the girls, but maybe you can share your expertise with them and and like run something like a club or a workshop

00:01:28: Galia Shilo Sum: that it would be more professional and have content. And as a journalist, which is

00:01:37: Galia Shilo Sum: my background, I was thinking, oh, amazing! I can run a workshop. It was just came out of my mouth. The words came out of my mouth, and it sounded the most natural thing to do. I'm a journalist. I'm writing. I'm editing. Let's do some writing with these girls.

00:01:53: Galia Shilo Sum: and it was quite an experience because we came in. They all wanted to do it. So I had like 15 girls in the 1st workshop. I had one of the social workers with me, and

00:02:10: Galia Shilo Sum: and we gave them an exercise like a topic to write on, and they just spilt out everything that they went through, and very graphic texts.

00:02:28: Galia Shilo Sum: a terrible storytelling of all the assaults that they had to go through, and the misery that they live in, the suffering, the pain, the mental issues. It was all out there without any filters. So there I was in my 1st circle

00:02:50: Galia Shilo Sum: with the most difficult texts to deal with, and it was quite an experience for both sides.

00:02:59: Galia Shilo Sum: So that was the 1st time, and we did that for a couple of years and.

00:03:04: Julia Davis: I'd love to talk about that, because what you're telling me is that you used to volunteer with these young women

00:03:14: Julia Davis: on a weekly basis and cook dinner with them, and you might have thought that in dinner conversation comes up. You get to know them well. But what seemed to have unlocked the key for them to feel safe enough to share their

00:03:28: Julia Davis: trauma story was the circle. And was that space where they could write about what they'd experienced.

00:03:37: Julia Davis: I'd love to, you know, before we go on to anything. The fact that you did that for 2 years is significant. I'd love to know how that worked a little bit more. And maybe also because you've gone from doing something where you weren't really, you were supporting them. But you weren't delving into their trauma experience. You were cooking them dinner and chatting with them to being in a space where you were actually holding

00:04:02: Julia Davis: their trauma stories. It's a lot.

00:04:05: Galia Shilo Sum: It is a lot. And and I think it's always it's always amazing and interesting to see what writing enables. And in a circle, because you know, when you chat one on one, you might hear the story. You might not. There might be. And and it also.

00:04:29: Galia Shilo Sum: it's also about building trust, especially with vulnerable youth. May I say that have been so badly hurt when they see an adult? Even if it's a woman that comes in the shelter place. It takes time to build the relationship and everything. But it's something about writing that I think

00:04:52: Galia Shilo Sum: that 1st of all brings out a lot of content that is sometimes difficult to say.

00:05:01: Galia Shilo Sum: Having said that they do know that they write it, and then they will read it to the others, and that they will get feedbacks for the writing and for what they're sharing. So it's like, it's like a big hug from the group that they're getting. But it's also. Sometimes it's easier to write than say, and I think that's why they all stepped in into the workshop, and they all kept showing up

00:05:30: Galia Shilo Sum: for for the for the 2 years that we have done that. And it was. It was very difficult it was. It was very harsh, and but they kept coming, because something about writing that it's it's a way of of dealing with

00:05:53: Galia Shilo Sum: all sorts of traumas and issues, and sometimes it's easier to do it through writing than than speaking, especially when the trauma is so is so.

00:06:05: Galia Shilo Sum: Yeah, yeah.

00:06:07: Galia Shilo Sum: So I think there was this combination of enabling them to write and sitting together with others that have gone through the same thing and sharing the personal experience is what made it so strong. But even in we'll get that to that later, even in other groups, that I've done later with women.

00:06:37: Galia Shilo Sum: Some of them come in and they tell you why they're there. They come with a reason, and it's often a trauma that they want to write.

00:06:50: Julia Davis: That's really interesting. And with this original group.

00:06:54: Julia Davis: just because it's so fascinating. And I'm sure it had some kind of impact on the later work that you've done as well. How did it work with

00:07:02: Julia Davis: the 1st circle? Was it the same group of women that would be in the circle each week? Or was it different? And what happened with what they wrote? How was the feedback managed? Because you're the expert as far as editing is concerned? And also you're not part of the demographic of this circle. So there's you're holding the space. You're not one of them

00:07:26: Julia Davis: as in you're not, you know. You're not someone who's receiving the support of the shelter.

00:07:32: Julia Davis: and that you're holding space for them to provide feedback for each other. They're listening to each other's stories. And then you're providing editorial support. You're actually reading what they're writing to improve the content of what they're written. And also, I guess what happens to those stories. Once they're completed, there's a lot there.

00:07:52: Galia Shilo Sum: Yes, it's quite a few questions, and I'll start with what's most difficult for me to say, because I'm quite disappointed that I haven't done it back in the days because I had this idea to when we were done, and we had quite a few very full notebooks in the office. I'm really, really disappointed that

00:08:16: Galia Shilo Sum: I didn't fulfill my idea to to, you know, to edit it to a book, and to to go public with it with, you know, not with their names, obviously, but just as a place as a memory also for them, but also maybe for a fundraiser, or just, for you know people people should know. I don't think that these

00:08:40: Galia Shilo Sum: details are spoken and are expressed

00:08:46: Galia Shilo Sum: that often, and I think there was an opportunity there that I didn't pick up, so I'm not sure they would have approved. But it, you know, it was just an idea that I thought that could be could have great impact. In turn, in terms of you know, talking about it, and.

00:09:11: Julia Davis: I mean today, that's a lot easier to do. I mean, I don't know how long ago that was, but today it is possible to get Isbn numbers and to self publish and to do things on a very small scale and on a book by book basis. You don't need a publisher.

00:09:25: Galia Shilo Sum: Yeah.

00:09:26: Julia Davis: So

00:09:26: Julia Davis: you could be forgiven if it was a while back to not know quite what avenues you would go down to get that story told, and also with the permissions. But that's you know, people who are listening now, they might think, oh, I'd love to run a circle of this kind. And now there are those avenues that they could go down in order to publish something. I know I've had conversations with you about ideas that could end up in a published book.

00:09:50: Galia Shilo Sum: Yeah. Yeah. So I think I. So for the other aspect of it, I think that it was very important that there was also a social worker in the room always, and when we finished, because the girls used to come from 4 to 8, and then they'd go home, and then we volunteers stayed with the social workers

00:10:13: Galia Shilo Sum: to process the day

00:10:15: Galia Shilo Sum: and to, you know, talk about everything that was going on, the relationships, the information that was shared. And how can we do things differently better? It was a really important ventilation session that we all needed, especially on Thursdays, with the writing workshop.

00:10:40: Galia Shilo Sum: That was not what's not easy emotionally, for me or the social worker. So

00:10:48: Galia Shilo Sum: this is how we we also, you know, shared ideas of how to improve the circle itself with the goals, and I think in general, when you run circles, it is the best thing to do is to keep, you know, a regular group that keeps coming and not having people pop in pop out, because, especially when the contest, when the content is so.

00:11:17: Julia Davis: Calendar Jink.

00:11:18: Galia Shilo Sum: Yes, but in such places you have to be flexible. You have to know who you're dealing with, they not all of them.

00:11:29: Galia Shilo Sum: where there are all the times always issues, always things happening. There's a police story. There's

00:11:36: Galia Shilo Sum: a runaway story. It's it's a lot. It's a lot. And you hear a lot of difficult stories, sadly, sadly, or or lucky me. I was in a way used to difficult

00:11:51: Galia Shilo Sum: stories, as

00:11:55: Galia Shilo Sum: as because my military service was, I was an officer for bereaved families. So it was another experience, difficult experience that I did at a very young age without any preps. So it was just something that you

00:12:15: Galia Shilo Sum: you, you learn how to deal with and along along the way. So I kind of had the experience.

00:12:25: Julia Davis: Yeah, so what? So what would a circle look like? So let's say you're coming in. They're coming in. The girls that they've got. They're with you from 4 till 8. During that time they're sitting and

00:12:38: Julia Davis: doing their creative writing circle with you.

00:12:41: Julia Davis: How would you open it? How would you introduce the writing. How would you manage the conversation that would happen during the circle? And how would you close it.

00:12:51: Galia Shilo Sum: Yeah, so so you come in.

00:12:56: Galia Shilo Sum: And then I think I think it was an hour and a half or an hour, and we ask how everyone is. But you already know how everyone is. They're never really good. And we say, and

00:13:14: Galia Shilo Sum: and then we'd introduce the topic of the week, or what we want them to write about, but it never really mattered what the title was. It always ended up with a graphic description.

00:13:30: Galia Shilo Sum: I don't recall any session where we said, Oh, today was light. Oh, today really

00:13:39: Galia Shilo Sum: ask them to rewrite. It was nothing like that. And it was so, you know, for for weeks and months, and maybe years later I still and and to date I still have some memories

00:13:53: Galia Shilo Sum: of sentences that were said or or pictures that I've had in my mind of some of these stories. It's very, very hard to get rid of those. It's

00:14:04: Galia Shilo Sum: it's just in your face, in your face with

00:14:11: Galia Shilo Sum: many, much more details than you'd want to hear. And it's but it's it's I think it's what

00:14:21: Galia Shilo Sum: it just shows what the circle enabled them to write, and I had to deal with that later.

00:14:28: Julia Davis: Yeah.

00:14:28: Galia Shilo Sum: They could deal with each other's stories, because they've all seen, you know the worst. So it's it was all all you know. They're in the group is obvious. There's a very, you know, strict rule of the house we can talk about. You know the rules of the city.

00:14:47: Julia Davis: I'd love to hear what your what your guidelines were.

00:14:49: Galia Shilo Sum: So so this in this particular place. Obviously, you know you, there's a very strict rule that also the volunteers when they come in, they agree on that. Everything that happens in the house stays in the house, you know. Yeah. And that's another rule that I've taken to my my other writing workshops later on. This needs to be a safe area, you know, confidential. And you know people

00:15:15: Galia Shilo Sum: cannot write at home thinking who might do what with the gossip or the because, because, for example, here in London, when I run the writing workshop, people often know each other when they come to the group, and sometimes they come in the 1st time. It's like, Oh, you're here, too, and then I see excitement. But I also see like Oh, you know.

00:15:40: Julia Davis: Yeah. Jeopardy. Yeah, yeah.

00:15:41: Galia Shilo Sum: I'm going to be sharing my story with you absolutely. Yeah.

00:15:43: Galia Shilo Sum: So it's it's you have to know that it's a safe area and that nothing will be, you know, shared with anyone else and with women who are harassed. It's

00:15:58: Galia Shilo Sum: it's also a legal. There's legal aspects to what's told, because do they need to report to police? That's not my business. It's the social works business, but it's also, you know, other aspects of it. So they need to know that what they share

00:16:14: Galia Shilo Sum: if there's a legal aspect to it, it will need to be discussed later, but it's very because some of them are still youth. Some of them are, you know, still living with the parents, and sometimes with the person who attacks them. And it's all really, really awful. And you don't always know what's you know. So they but still they shared.

00:16:43: Galia Shilo Sum: And there's also, you know, rules. And

00:16:46: Galia Shilo Sum: and the feedback is also very interesting, right? Because what happens is you come in back now to the question about how it's run. You come in. How is everyone this is today's topic. Let's take 20 min

00:17:05: Galia Shilo Sum: or 30 min. Write what you want to do and

00:17:13: Galia Shilo Sum: and then we come back, and then we or read our texts, and then

00:17:23: Galia Shilo Sum: we give feedback. So each.

00:17:26: Julia Davis: When you say we all share our text. Do you write as well? Did you write? No, so just. Everyone in the group writes writes, and then everyone shares, shares what they've written. And then how did the how did the feed? How did you manage the feedback? How did you hold that feedback.

00:17:41: Galia Shilo Sum: So in a bigger group, not especially in this group, but not later, because in this kind of groups you don't expect everyone to

00:17:54: Galia Shilo Sum: say anything, and you don't. It's a writing workshop, but because it was so, you know, the topic was so harsh. You don't really talk about the quality of writing, or how would you edit it? Or you know you just

00:18:11: Galia Shilo Sum: it's more about the salt or how we feel about it. And then people, some would say, you know, if it's a big group, you also be cautious of time. So you say, who are the 3 who want to give feedback to this one. And then you just go around because you need to have enough time for the 15 or 10 to read their things and

00:18:35: Galia Shilo Sum: sometimes takes so long, because they just they just

00:18:39: Galia Shilo Sum: you don't know how much people can write in 20 min. It's just crazy when it's so, you know.

00:18:46: Julia Davis: Yeah.

00:18:47: Galia Shilo Sum: They're ready to be.

00:18:50: Galia Shilo Sum: Spit it out. So yeah, you have to be also cautious of time. It's not ideal, but it's also sometimes good, because in each circle you probably know that you'll have the one or 2 people that will just talk forever, and you have to facilitate that. So this is something that is because because not always, you know, everyone has the patience to to hear some

00:19:16: Galia Shilo Sum: one specific. Just keep talking. So you have to manage that gently, but it has to be managed.

00:19:24: Julia Davis: Yeah. So in this circle

00:19:26: Julia Davis: people would share their stories. Then you'd give maybe 3 people the opportunity to feedback. And you weren't so interested in

00:19:35: Julia Davis: how editing it beautifully. It was about the content and processing the content for those young women.

00:19:43: Julia Davis: Yeah. Yeah.

00:19:43: Julia Davis: And you always had. It's also, I mean. These are interesting points that if you're running a therapeutic group, then, having somebody qualified to hold the space for, so you had your social worker there who had specific qualifications to hold the space. There were 2 of you in that space as well, so that when you're dealing with people who are vulnerable, if somebody spirals out or has a really difficult

00:20:08: Julia Davis: time, one person is there to support that particular individual, and also being prepared for the content and having support for yourself so that you can

00:20:20: Julia Davis: deal with what's there. So people who are listening may well be wanting to work in therapeutic settings in a shelter in a refugee center in somewhere where they want to support people who've got stories to tell. So the fact that you've done this and you've got very clear guidelines is like our guidelines. It sounds like your guidelines, you said. I think we had rules. It's like some places you have guidelines, and that sounds a bit softer here.

00:20:47: Julia Davis: It's a you know. It's very, very important. This confidential confidentiality could affect the outcome of a court proceedings, I would imagine, or something of that sort. So in that case confidentiality has a whole different level of meaning. So

00:21:03: Julia Davis: that was a lot to unpack. This is much more than a conversation about creativity circles. When I 1st spoke to you, Gallia, about having this interview, I didn't know about the women's shelter. I knew about your creativity circles with women. So it's amazing that the 1st question I ask you brings up this amazing thing that you did, and very clearly

00:21:27: Julia Davis: shows the impact that that had on you as a human as well. I think we can't underestimate the impact that

00:21:34: Julia Davis: we have. You know, that happens to us when we choose to volunteer or work in spaces where

00:21:42: Julia Davis: deep trauma has occurred. So.

00:21:44: Galia Shilo Sum: Yeah.

00:21:44: Julia Davis: Earlier, yeah.

00:21:45: Galia Shilo Sum: Know, it's really interesting that you just remind me something that you said, because back in the days, I think that we're talking 2,007 or so. I was looking for a meaningful volunteering, and

00:22:02: Galia Shilo Sum: that was also the time that I started dating this guy that I'm now married to 18 years later, and I started volunteering in a hospital in a children unit. And I walked around with the cart, and, you know, gave them books or videos and everything. And

00:22:30: Galia Shilo Sum: and my then boyfriend said, You know it's really great that you do it. But you have so much to give and so much expertise an area of you know

00:22:41: Galia Shilo Sum: you have a profession, you know. Why don't you find something that'd be interesting for you as well? I mean, surely. So you go give them books, but this you know no offense. Many people can do that. Why don't you find a volunteering that you can really bring yourself and what you know, and this

00:23:01: Galia Shilo Sum: and then I ended up doing that. And then I reminded him, sometimes I want to go back to give books to kids in the hospital. Because yes, I am doing what I'm doing, you know, from my profession, but it got really difficult at times. But yes, it was very meaningful. And I think it's the kind of experiences in life that really like define you as well. Yeah.

00:23:30: Julia Davis: I'm doing something similar, volunteering, wise at the moment. But that's not for the podcast

00:23:36: Julia Davis: think when you work, when you work with deep trauma. It's a real challenge. I'd love to, you know you said it never got light. Let's get a little bit lighter.

00:23:45: Galia Shilo Sum: Yes, let's.

00:23:46: Julia Davis: And so you went on from working with these vulnerable women to running creativity workshops that did involve editing that did involve providing feedback on content. And we can all have very delicate sensitivities around what we've written, and we can be.

00:24:08: Julia Davis: It can be difficult to provide feedback to people on content, especially if they think what they've written is brilliant, or if it's been really personal, taken time and effort to write, it's really sensitive. I know I did a Tedx talk with you, Gallia and I was like edit away. I really need an editor, but I know not. Everyone is open to editing in the way that I was. I was like really open to it. I was like, finally, someone's going to read my work and make it better.

00:24:34: Julia Davis: I'd love to know what the experience was like, you know. How did you come to move over to working with women who wanted to be creatively expressive?

00:24:44: Julia Davis: And how did you deal with that whole experience.

00:24:47: Galia Shilo Sum: Yeah, I think it in.

00:24:51: Galia Shilo Sum: because of my background. And because English is not my 1st language and coming to the Uk, so it's also about

00:25:01: Galia Shilo Sum: how you do a relocation, how you keep. You know you need to reinvent yourself sometimes to be busy and everything. And that was something that in a way, when I came here, and I saw that there's a huge Israeli

00:25:17: Galia Shilo Sum: community here, and that they want to do things together, and they do want to express, and they do want to stay around their own community. So I started doing activities around that. And I've done Ted style events in Hebrew with experts from the community that I've trained to

00:25:41: Galia Shilo Sum: public speaking. And then we we did events

00:25:46: Galia Shilo Sum: such as the Tedx, but more like Ted. 1520 min, and then and then I was thinking, because I liked writing, and I talked to it was just like, you know, a random conversation that led to to start these these circles

00:26:04: Galia Shilo Sum: here. And it was, it was basically

00:26:08: Galia Shilo Sum: I met these girls and she said, Oh, we'd like you to do something around writing. I said, Yeah, let's try to do that. And I advertised the first, st the 1st one, and it was just like that. I had the 10. I decided I'll be 10. I decided it'd be only women. And I decided, it's going to be a physical like we're actually meeting.

00:26:31: Julia Davis: Earthhan.

00:26:31: Galia Shilo Sum: Yes, in person. So so we we started that. And it was.

00:26:40: Galia Shilo Sum: It was really it was really great, and people met each other. I think most of them did know each other, and we have prepared a set of rules, and here there was an agenda, so 10 sessions and an idea of building up

00:27:02: Galia Shilo Sum: and writing skills.

00:27:05: Galia Shilo Sum: So you said.

00:27:05: Julia Davis: Awesome.

00:27:06: Galia Shilo Sum: And it's all around exercise. So I give them an exercise, and I tell them what to write on in general, and then they choose their own topics, and then they bring it, and then they each read it, and then

00:27:19: Galia Shilo Sum: there's a feedback, and we do talk in the 1st session on how to give feedback, and that there is no such bad text. They're all good. So we're just going to do constructive critic. And even if you want. You say you know something that is a kind of a critic, but you have to think how you say it.

00:27:43: Galia Shilo Sum: And it was an interesting process, and I was surprised how

00:27:50: Galia Shilo Sum: positive and and compassion, how much compassion was in the group, and how women power is not just a cliche, but indeed a thing, and

00:28:05: Galia Shilo Sum: and here, too, I was often surprised and often moved, and the but- but in each group there's issues.

00:28:20: Julia Davis: So let's let's kind of unpack what you've said. And then let's talk about the issues. So

00:28:25: Julia Davis: you decided when you did so.

00:28:28: Julia Davis: it came out of a beautiful idea that someone suggested to you. But then, from that idea it didn't magically occur. You decided to advertise it. You can tell me about the title of that in a moment. But you advertised it. You decided that you wanted to have 10 people. You knew that it was all going to be women, and you knew that you wanted it to be in person. And then you spent time, effort, and energy creating a program in which there would be exercises each week, and you could

00:28:57: Julia Davis: see a build from week one to the final week. At which point

00:29:03: Julia Davis: you can tell me what the end result was that you were aiming to do. Now that's

00:29:08: Julia Davis: very considered. That is really taking time, effort, and energy to do. It's not like, I think I'm going to do a creative writing circle. I'm going to bring some people together and woo. This magic's going to happen.

00:29:19: Julia Davis: Magic does happen in circle, and

00:29:23: Julia Davis: we take a huge amount of time, effort, and energy to

00:29:28: Julia Davis: create these spaces where the magic happens.

00:29:31: Julia Davis: So maybe talk a little bit about what was the name of your circle. What were your thoughts around the location? Once you decided you wanted to be in person. What were your thoughts around where it was going to be. And then how did you manage the building up from these people who thought they might possibly be creative? And maybe there were people who'd already written before, and there are some people that hadn't. How do you balance a different knowledge that's in the room.

00:29:59: Julia Davis: And then how do you work towards something where, you know. I know that I've run workshops where someone's really knowledgeable, and then someone knows practically nothing, and how to bring all those people to a space where they feel like they've achieved by the end. I'd love to know what that journey looked like for you.

00:30:16: Galia Shilo Sum: So many questions. I hope you remember.

00:30:18: Julia Davis: Go ahead!

00:30:18: Galia Shilo Sum: No, because I'm not gonna.

00:30:20: Julia Davis: All these so popping ideas.

00:30:23: Galia Shilo Sum: Good. So the the

00:30:25: Galia Shilo Sum: in person it was here at our place. I wanted it. I didn't want to, just, you know, hire a place and and have people sit in a circle on

00:30:40: Galia Shilo Sum: on wooden chairs. I just wanted to have a homey feeling and to have them sit on the couch, and you know, and then would start in the kitchen, and, you know, make coffees to everyone, and have like a small talk, and then sit down and and start working, and it's always like

00:31:04: Galia Shilo Sum: a bit of an intro. And then they would start, you know.

00:31:11: Galia Shilo Sum: reading and and sharing. And there's always a conversation about how was it a difficult one? Was it a hard one? But I think in order to run such groups

00:31:25: Galia Shilo Sum: it's always interesting, and there is a little bit of learning, just because before we all start of understanding why people are coming to this group, and

00:31:40: Galia Shilo Sum: it's they often told me some of them would. So some come because there's already a book in the drawer, right? And they just need to publish it. So they want to polish a few writing skills, and one would come because she was going through a stillbirth, and she wants to deal with that

00:32:04: Galia Shilo Sum: through writing, and I had at least 2 or 3 ladies over the years who said, They're coming because they want to write to their late moms

00:32:14: Galia Shilo Sum: passed away, and they need to close that circle through writing and to deal with that. So people are

00:32:22: Galia Shilo Sum: so. Some people would come to such a group to deal with traumas.

00:32:29: Galia Shilo Sum: Know that writing is the tool that they want to use.

00:32:33: Galia Shilo Sum: Interesting because you don't think of

00:32:37: Galia Shilo Sum: all of the scenarios when you create a group, and then you realize that you have people who who are coming for very, very specific

00:32:49: Galia Shilo Sum: cause. But they come with different expectations and with different ideas.

00:32:55: Galia Shilo Sum: and I think one of the funniest thing that happened with one of the group and with one of the recent groups is that even before the 1st session, when I have the 10 ladies, I write them an email like 2 weeks before. And I give them the exercise for the 1st session. So the 1st session we're not playing. We're not introducing ourselves. We're not. We're just doing a little bit of, you know, housekeeping. And that's it, the rules. And we basically we start not like, you know.

00:33:27: Galia Shilo Sum: harshly. But it's just we just start because I always tell them this is another thing I've learned in other circles that are not facilitated. If you just say to someone. Let's just do a quick round. Just tell us something about yourself.

00:33:43: Galia Shilo Sum: This is a 2 and a half hour session. It's.

00:33:45: Julia Davis: Yes.

00:33:47: Galia Shilo Sum: People like to talk about themselves. So I've created this technique that I'm saying, and I actually really believe in it, that I say, listen. We're not going to introduce ourselves and tell something about ourselves, not just because we don't have the time, and we don't have the time

00:34:06: Galia Shilo Sum: also, because it will be like a book

00:34:11: Galia Shilo Sum: we are going to unfold and and get to know you along the way through your writing, like we don't know everything about the main character in the book in the 1st chapter, right? So.

00:34:25: Julia Davis: And.

00:34:27: Galia Shilo Sum: Along the way we are going to, and they love it. And

00:34:32: Galia Shilo Sum: to start working. So the funny story was that

00:34:38: Galia Shilo Sum: I'm sending all of them. The 1st exercise, and it is, and I'm not going to tell you all of them. I'll tell you this one it is about. Think of a phrase, an expression you've learned. You've heard a lot as a child at your house.

00:35:03: Galia Shilo Sum: something that kept going, something that meant something, a message or something, and write about that. Be careful, Julia. You're going to think about this now for the rest of our conversation, because it's like, Oh, what's mine? And it's a great. It's a great exercise. And

00:35:29: Galia Shilo Sum: just for the buildup of how I build this workshop, this exercise is about

00:35:37: Galia Shilo Sum: writing something that touches something from inside. So you just you can't just write about anything you can. But it's not going to be as meaningful. It's about, you know, being authentic about something that

00:35:52: Galia Shilo Sum: something from your soul. Right? So

00:35:56: Galia Shilo Sum: I've sent it out to these 10 ladies, and I swear within 15 min I got 2 replies from 2 different ladies. One said, Oh, my God! It's going to be the funniest 10 weeks ever I can see that coming. Oh, it's going to be so fun, light fun! And 10 min later another email, oh, my God, it's going to be so difficult.

00:36:27: Galia Shilo Sum: the most painful places! And now you need to bridge the gap of you know what people expectations, what people thought are about it, and it's brilliant, and it gets tricky at times. But I don't really recall

00:36:53: Galia Shilo Sum: an issue around this, because this is this is what we also, you know.

00:37:00: Galia Shilo Sum: tell the kids and what we need to be telling ourselves, I'm going for an experience. I'm going to meet other people's, and I'm going to take the most out of it for me, and I'm going to be there for other, and we learn from everyone all the time. You know how many insights you have in such groups, just by listening to each other.

00:37:23: Julia Davis: Yeah.

00:37:24: Galia Shilo Sum: By hearing someone else's text. He dared writing that I feel that I wrote about something else, and it's always one that writes later, you know, doesn't want to go. And that's okay.

00:37:39: Julia Davis: Yeah.

00:37:39: Galia Shilo Sum: It's good to have a.

00:37:40: Julia Davis: Yeah, the light stories are good to have amongst the darkness. I wanted to ask you, you clearly got a lot of expertise in teasing stories out of people. I remember when I 1st met you for the Tedx.

00:37:55: Julia Davis: you immediately got me to think about a personal story that mattered because you said to me, if you tell a personal story that matters, people will care, and people will really listen to your story, and it completely changed. I've come to see you with one idea, and I left with something completely different that I hadn't had any expectation of doing. It really made me think.

00:38:20: Julia Davis: But I wonder what in your background, and it might just be that you've got a natural talent for this kind of thing. But

00:38:27: Julia Davis: what is there in your background, or in your learning that has given you the level of expertise, to know what questions to ask, to tease out these amazing stories, to have that reaction from 2 different people. Wow, this is going to be amazing. Wow, this is going to be super deep. They were

00:38:45: Julia Davis: strong reactions, even though they were completely different. One was very excited. One had felt that you touched a place that maybe they wanted to go because they were like they wanted a deep experience. That's why that's what they read in your words.

00:38:59: Galia Shilo Sum: Yeah, I think it's where journalism kicks in. Really? I have. I've

00:39:04: Galia Shilo Sum: most of my career was in journalism, and mainly as an editor, and the editor is the one that reads a 500 or 1,000 words article and says

00:39:21: Galia Shilo Sum: that was not the title. Listen!

00:39:24: Galia Shilo Sum: In the 6th paragraph you're saying that the guy you interviewed says that that's huge. No one said that before. That's the story. That's the title that's going to maybe even move the I was move. The, you know, change the stock and people that might be. You know. There's a huge story now that he said that, and that's gonna affect the company. So this

00:39:50: Galia Shilo Sum: is the title. And and it's just about finding the stories. It's about directing journalists to go out there

00:40:00: Galia Shilo Sum: and look for that or that. And so so it's about the bigger picture. And it's about helping. You know, people find their voice in a way.

00:40:16: Galia Shilo Sum: because by the end of the day. You want it to be a significant experience to them, right? As much as in the newspaper. You want to help the journalist be a better journalist

00:40:30: Galia Shilo Sum: sense what real stories are, and and also, and also, you know, help them be very successful in what they do, and and the same in writing, because in writing I always say, even even when you're thinking about very famous authors.

00:40:52: Galia Shilo Sum: there's 2 kind of of you know, books that you know touch me or 2 kind of characters for authors. I think one kind of books that I really like reading is that the story?

00:41:08: Galia Shilo Sum: It's so amazing. It doesn't matter how they deliver it.

00:41:15: Julia Davis: - yeah.

00:41:16: Galia Shilo Sum: And some some store, some authors.

00:41:25: Galia Shilo Sum: The story itself is not always important, because the language is something that you you just fall in love with. It's just. It's just you want more and more from this person, because his words, the way he says things, and sometimes the the who says what what really happened is less important with such, and the combination between these 2 is very, very rare.

00:41:55: Galia Shilo Sum: But but I think most people are are

00:42:01: Galia Shilo Sum: who are really successful are those who can really tell a story. So when you help people you know tell their story and you help them, you know, define better what they want to say and how they want to say it. That's

00:42:20: Galia Shilo Sum: that's the main goal for me to make you write a nice story that you will like.

00:42:30: Julia Davis: Yeah. So when you invited people into your creativity circle, what's the catch? What catches their imagination? How did you?

00:42:39: Julia Davis: You know? How did you do that?

00:42:41: Julia Davis: What was your title of your creativity circle? Or you know, what? What are people coming, with? What expectations are you offering for people.

00:42:51: Galia Shilo Sum: There was one year that I tried different things, and I think the funniest thing that I used as an advertising was mommy deserves a club as well. It was like, it's about us. Now, you know. Let's just do something for ourselves, and because it's not what we want to happen, but often in relocation.

00:43:22: Galia Shilo Sum: Only only the guys work. And the mom.

00:43:27: Galia Shilo Sum: just, you know, are around the house and the kids and the you know, household stuff and.

00:43:36: Julia Davis: With a lot of women who've been relocated with their partners who've been. It's not their home country, and they've come here, and they might not even be legally allowed to work in the country that they're I don't know whether or it's just. It's happened in a way that

00:43:52: Julia Davis: they're the ones carrying the cans. So they're the ones whose choices have been changed.

00:43:58: Galia Shilo Sum: Yes, yeah. And and it's it's and I think through writing, you do something that is significant that you're happy with yourself, and you feel that you're getting to know other people, and there's a lot of friendships that grew out of the writing workshops

00:44:21: Galia Shilo Sum: only even for me. It's

00:44:25: Galia Shilo Sum: I have so many, so many of my girlfriends are ladies that came to my to my workshops, and we just became friends because something so real and intimate is happening in these groups that you just fall in love with people, and you get to know them. And when it's mutual, it's just a friendship is growing. And that's another amazing thing that I like it because people just bring them

00:44:50: Galia Shilo Sum: themselves. They're authentic. They don't. They don't have the fears to, you know. Open up and tell. They know this confident, you know, it's confident. And and nothing's going to happen. And they just. And so it's it's a it's a quicker way to.

00:45:07: Galia Shilo Sum: to, to develop real friendships.

00:45:11: Julia Davis: I totally agree. I think something happens in circle which circumvents the small talk, especially if you're doing creative writing because you've literally got it's like when you introduce a theme to a talking circle, you've introduced a theme. We're not, and also people have the opportunity to talk about themselves as parents often there isn't that opportunity to actually think, oh, who am I? What are my wants and needs? What's my life story?

00:45:38: Julia Davis: So with those stories? How do you? You know? How do you come to a conclusion? And how do you manage the expectations of the women in the space? Because if there's someone who's got a book in the drawer, and they'd like it to be a published book at the end of 10 weeks, and there's someone who's never written before. So how do you manage those expectations? And have you seen published work?

00:46:00: Julia Davis: Come out of yourself.

00:46:02: Galia Shilo Sum: Work in progress. Now, one of them just wrote me that she wants to to publish. I think we're more looking at it as a taster, because

00:46:15: Galia Shilo Sum: because it's when I advertise, it's just you don't need prior experience. It's a taster. It's just for yourself and for the magic of writing and and meeting people, and it's not, you know I'm not an author. I've edited books, but I'm not an author, so I can't say. You know it's not like one of those more very expensive and

00:46:44: Galia Shilo Sum: many month workshops that you end up with the book. It's more about, you know, ambitious to write to get some skills. And I think a lot of people are also coming because they're curious, but also because they want to meet people and do something different and try something that they haven't done before.

00:47:05: Julia Davis: Yeah, like a club for mum, like you just said it's a club. So I love the idea of it being something that people are choosing to do, because they want to learn a new skill, almost.

00:47:16: Julia Davis: And it's a lovely way to make friends and in circles. So what we've done really with this conversation that I've had with you today is that journaling is often an aspect of circle holding, and when we introduce a subject, and we know that it might be a bit sticky, or it might take a little bit of time to tease out what that means for someone. We say, grab a piece of paper and have a little scribble.

00:47:43: Julia Davis: And what you're doing is you're inviting people in who are for them. That aspect of circle holding would maybe be their favorite bit, and they really want to spend half to 3 quarters of their time in circle doing the actual scribbling. And it sounds like there's a homework aspect to it? Or is that just before the 1st circle does all the writing happen in circle, or do they go off? And then in between times.

00:48:11: Galia Shilo Sum: Yeah. So this is completely different from the girls back in the days because the the writing is happening at home.

00:48:22: Julia Davis: Right.

00:48:22: Galia Shilo Sum: So they would come to the session, and we talk a little bit. And then they start reading because 10 women, 10 texts is a lot.

00:48:31: Julia Davis: A lot. It's a lot. Yeah. So and about 2 h together, is that so? About 2 h together, and then at the end of. So we often talk about the end of a circle and closing it well, so that people feel like they've got a place to go. They've got their way out of circle. And I would imagine for your group that aspect of the circle is really important, because you're kind of setting their homework for the following session.

00:49:01: Galia Shilo Sum: Yeah. And I'm usually telling them what is the next exercise for next time, and why I'm doing it, how I'm building what? So

00:49:10: Galia Shilo Sum: they're supposed to, you know. Take whatever they took from the 1st and second sessions for the 3rd one, and do the new exercise, and so many times the feedbacks would be

00:49:24: Galia Shilo Sum: in later sessions. Oh, that really improved! Remember how we told you and not me. You know, the other participants are saying. You know, now you've really chose not to give all the details of it. And today there were so many senses I could smell the flowers I could.

00:49:49: Galia Shilo Sum: Someone was writing about the burnt smell of the oil in the falafel shop.

00:50:00: Galia Shilo Sum: I couldn't get rid of the smell in my mind for a long time.

00:50:07: Julia Davis: It's so pertinent that's brilliant. So we're coming to the end of our time together, Gallia.

00:50:16: Julia Davis: as we come to to the close of our session, I would say I'd love to ask you, what's your favorite thing about running creativity circles? What do you really love about it?

00:50:28: Galia Shilo Sum: I think for me, it's always about inspiration, it's about inspiration, and I feel that. But also I want to talk about listening because I think that so many conversations around us all day long we talk to people, even with close people, and I see people hearing you, but I can see that already saying thinking about the answer that they will give that will talk about themselves

00:50:58: Galia Shilo Sum: is, doesn't

00:51:00: Galia Shilo Sum: I think people are less like really seeing the person in front of them, and you know,

00:51:08: Galia Shilo Sum: giving him the time that he needs. Now.

00:51:12: Galia Shilo Sum: you know, just someone just told me a few days ago. Yes, this is a really hard story. My son had that problem as well, you know.

00:51:21: Galia Shilo Sum: Why didn't you just stay with me for a second, you know, and with what I've just shared. And I think with writing oops, someone is reading a text, and the others are listening to this text, and they are with her after that, and they're giving her what she needs now, and they don't think about themselves for a second, I said, this is just a feedback from you to you about her.

00:51:49: Galia Shilo Sum: Put yourselves aside for a while, and I think people are understanding that. So this is something that is really great that often happens.

00:51:59: Galia Shilo Sum: and I think it's a great experience that you have to do in my circles, and I love it.

00:52:07: Julia Davis: Totally agree. I really do that resonated with me so much, Galia. Totally. It's been an absolute pleasure and revelation to speak to you this morning. I have learned so much from you. Would you like to share any way that people can find you? Is there a are you on Instagram, or should we just save that for the show notes? Whatever you want to do? How would you want people to find you.

00:52:34: Galia Shilo Sum: I'll add a couple of links. And my email, if someone is interested in hearing more doing something such as in English as well. And yeah, my Instagram is in another field of my life which is about education and thinking about the future for our kids. And it's about how to use basically news

00:52:58: Galia Shilo Sum: to develop critical thinking, empathy and productivity with kids in kids.

00:53:06: Julia Davis: That's a whole other conversation that we'll have. Thank you so much for joining me today, Gallia.

00:53:11: Galia Shilo Sum: Welcome welcome. It was a pleasure.